Hoping for help with Measure generating a usable response – Sonarworks Support Center

Here's is an excerpt from information sent to Sonarworks support and while they're very friendly, I'm hoping a user has some insight.

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Hello Chris,

I was able to get back to one of the studios today and test again, here’s what I found.

Based on my guess that Measure does not adequately deal with acoustic early reflections I brought a large absorption panel into the audio control room. Using the Default Signal, Measure once again was not able to read mic position #2, the one closest to the left speaker. I placed the absorption panel against the front flush-mount soffit and while Measure still was a bit confused on mic position it eventually found position #2 with the panel in place. I continued with the measurements and further away from the speakers, where the first reflection is from the desk, Measure once again refused to see the accurate mic position. I moved the absorption panel to cover the desk and Measure found the mic position. This indicates Measure cannot adequately distinguish early reflections from direct signals.

I then took your suggestion to use the other Signals. When I switched to Signal B Measure crashed with a window displaying an error that Measure had crashed and a link to file a report. Launching Measure again and switching to Signal B, I got through a few measurements then Measure started producing a strange low amplitude signal for approximately 10 seconds or so then the same crash window came up. Launching Measure again and switching to Signal B for the third time, after a few minutes Measure crashed again.

I launched Measure again and switched to Signal C, this time Measure did not crash. Measure had trouble accurately determining mic position for a number of positions requiring the absorption panel to function correctly, but I got through the measurements. For a number of positions I held the mic completely still yet Measure’s display of the mic position jumped back and forth across the screen despite the fact that I wasn’t moving the mic. Once completed I then saved the preset.

Up until now I’ve been concerned simply with getting Measure to function. Launching SystemWide, loading the preset and listening, I was surprised at how it sounded. Measure managed to capture a few of the midrange irregularities that the LSR708s have that require DSP to fix, and I don’t expect the high end to be completely accurate with a generic measurement mic, but the low-mid and low-end surprised me. Measure completely confused what should be occurring below around 600Hz. I switched between the Measure preset generated today, the preset from Studio #1 with the same speakers, and the dsp I tuned last year for this studio, and while some parts of the frequency spectrum were sort of accurate, some were completely inaccurate when using the Measure-generated presets.

For all this testing I’ve been using the SystemWide function to get the true accurate Sonarworks preset response. I used some acoustic software to look at the actual response that Measure determined was accurate and compared with the dsp tuning I did last year for this studio that mixers love so much. I can see where Measure got it close and where it’s completely incorrect. That’s how I am able to view what the preset is actually doing. However as I mentioned, it’s simply not correct. I’m very familiar with the concept of “get used to it and you’ll like it” however this simply sounds incorrect. One of our engineers walking by stuck his head in and said “that sounds terrible, what is that?”. Measure could not come up with an adequate tuning for this good-sounding room. Because we deal with large broadcasts with professional mixing desks, simply inserting a plugin into a daw is nowhere near adequate, we need to use Measure to determine the correct tuning and then duplicate that in outboard dsp. However I can’t get that far as Measure does not come up with a decent response to duplicate.

Here’s why I’m writing all this and spending all this time. We do large scale television broadcasts and our television trucks are the best in the entertainment industry, period. I’m the only individual who’s capable of tuning our rooms and mixers love the way our tuned rooms sound. A number of online reviewers have said things like “once you get used to the new Sonarworks tuning you’ll really like it” etc. and I was hoping that, with all those measurements you do, you would be able to average things out so they sound good. I’m trying to establish a scientific method to the tuning so I can have others do it for me, and Sonarworks seemed like a good option to do so. Unfortunately with our excellent equipment, acoustically treated studios, and Measure, the result is not good. I cannot pass off the torch of room tuning to another engineer because the Measure result doesn’t sound good.

If your engineers have any further suggestions I’m open, as I said I’m searching for a solution that so far Measure does not satisfy. I promise I’m not simply complaining about your software, I’m an engineer who has been at this for many decades, I want this to work. At this time Measure does not function as it’s advertised to do and I’m genuinely disappointed.

Sincerely,

Hugh

Christoph Bäurle January 11, 2020 10:50

Hey Hugh, did you ever get any answer / solution offered? That community seems to be a dead end road. Btw I also experienced severe problems with the measurement and correction of the low end and low mid region. For me the software is currently not usable.

Hugh Healy January 16, 2020 18:18

Hello Christoph,

No I did not. Chris from Sonarworks was quite friendly in our interactions but each exchange took many days, up to a week, and my trial ran out after a few exchanges. He sent me another trial code but I haven't used it because Measure does not generate adequate results if there's a large mixing desk and/or a front soffit.

I attempted to get it to work with a total of approximately 70 attempts to use Measure, approximately 12 of those were able to get through the measurement process and the rest failed. This was attempted in a total of 3 studios. Of those 12 successful Measure results none generated responses that were in any way usable. I fully appreciate the "use it and and you'll like it" concept but these genuinely sounded bad and, specifically, did not correct for the acoustic and speaker response anomalies that need to be corrected.

I was able to demonstrate with deployable acoustic absorption panels that Measure will not complete the measurement process if a mixing desk or front soffit is creating reflections. I tried so many times to get it to work because I wanted it to work - I'm trying to find a repeatable process for tuning a studio that I can hand off to one of my coworkers because I'm tired of doing it. I wanted this to work.

I agree with your assessment, the forum is not a valuable place for information. I was hoping another user had seen the same anomalies and would be able to assist, unfortunately all my posts were delayed by many days, not sure why, and some were never posted. The above post was only one, the other follow-up posts never made it onto the forum, not sure why but a bit weird.

Good luck, SonarWorks is not for large studios, perhaps it works adequately for bedroom beatmakers but until they figure out the reflection issues in a real studio with a real desk it does not function as advertised.

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