Can I measure multichannel setups (5.1, 7.1 etc.)?

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    Teemu Hammaren

    Any progress on multi channel support? 

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    Chris

    Thank you for all of your feedback! 
    We have actually invested research into this as more and more people express interest in the multichannel feature. We are listening and taking your requests and suggestions into consideration.
    We already have ideas on how to make this happen, but I can't currently provide any information on the development and implementation of the feature as of yet.

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    Mike G

    I would buy this instantly if it had multichannel support

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    Clément Chaumeil

    Hi, do you know when the measure of a multi channel setup will be available ?

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    Fabian Schaller

    Any news about the multichannel support? Can't wait for that, hahaha.

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    Richard Spooner

    I have a set up in protools where I use 3 instances of sonar works on the routing that feeds my 5.1 output. Working well for everything but the Lfe. 

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    Richard Spooner

    Can you explain more how this would useful ?

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    Stefan Riske

    Hey guys, I'm new in this forum and would like to chime in on the multi-channel situation.

    I totally understand that the target audience for a multi-channel solution is much smaller than for the stereo version and that the development costs will have to reflect in the final product price to make it profitable.

    Mostly professionals will use this feature and those of us have no problem paying $1000+ for such a feature. It's a business investment, which will safe us valuable time, improve our workflow & results for the years to come and therefore practically pay for itself.

    So, maybe you lovely people at Sonarworks would like to re-evaluate this topic after 4 years?

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    G Delsavio (Edited )

    Still sad, 5.1 touches definitely more pro users, compared to stereo, where the majority are enthousiasts users (studio use of course). I guess enthousiasts represents (as for most of the equipments in an average price) the majority of the users in the audio domain, so they would benefit more (in terms of selling) from the 4.1 version. You said it, we are in a business world, and the choices you made by going on the "common users side" shows that the pro users are arriving second, whatever the argumentation on the 4.1. You are a company, like all companies you need to sell, and use marketing for that, you are not to blame, and have the freedom to make whatever you want. But please don't say you care so much of pro users when the decisions are made already in another direction.

    Please do not misunderstand what I think of your product. I think they are really really good, professionally made, I don't intend to switch to anything else, and always give a good appreciation around me. Also, thank you for sharing our frustration.

    sorry for any misuse or mistake in my English

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    James Ashton

    A mono compatible version of the plugin would be all that we need (at least for Pro Tools users). A multi-mono instance of the plugin could be inserted on your monitor master fader from which each channel can be modified independently (of course, the plugin needs to not be operating in 'channel link' mode). I already put some rudimentary corrective EQ across a 7.1.2 master output in this fashion. In this way, it doesn't matter how big or small your output format is - it is completely scaleable, and wouldn't require much re-writing of software code at all (hey, I'm not a software programmer, but it shouldn't be too hard to code a mono plugin from a stereo one!)

    This would be a huge help to freelancers like myself, who regularly find themselves in different, and inappropriately acoustically treated rooms

    HUGE +1 from me

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    Richard Spooner

    In post-production the most important speaker is the centre, so a pass through wouldn’t work for us.

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    Jan Pieter Geersing

    +1 for multichannel support!

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    Richard Spooner

    Firstly , thanks Sonarworks for keeping this thread open as it’s a little critical, my last post was flippant I know.
    At the moment I couldn’t work without Sonarworks at my home studio, it’s truly amazing. I recently mixed a budget feature film which I played back at a top London stage and there were no surprises, the balance and tone were exactly as I had heard it at home.
    I can see that it would be a lot of work to make a surround version. Clearly you would have think about 5.1 , 7.1 and Atmos formats too.
    I wonder if the compromise would be to give us a way to calibrate and monitor a single speaker. We could then build as large monitoring setups as we needed. This could be through multiple mono plugins or a single multi channel plugin where you could load and arrange your single speaker profiles. A way of calibrating a, .1 / LFE sub would be very very useful also.
    Thanks.
    Rich.

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    François Beauvais (Edited )

    +1 for pass-through.

     

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    Richard Spooner

    Oh dear .. Another company not interested in their pro-users.

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    Fabian Schaller

    Nice! For 5.1 I use Nuendo. I will try it there. Thanks!!!

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    François Beauvais

    I just read Richard's recommendation about developing a single speaker mono calibration version. Well that would work perfectly along side a software like patchwork. We could route as many plugins instances as we'd like to the different outputs letting us configure our system perfectly using mono and stereo calibrations to our needs. Whatever the channel count.

    Sonarworks to do list :

    1- Creating a mono calibration process and plugin.

    2- Create a routing interface inspired by pathwork for a systemwide application.

    3- Sell this new higher priced customizable multi-channel and shut us all up while making more money!

    When we put our minds together, see what we can do! hehe... All jokes aside, take the users intake for free and make your clients happy! This method would work on pretty much all multi-channel system and future ones without a tone of work on your part. Once this is working, you can always improve upon it in the future.

    Of course it would be a tiny bit more complexe for the user to setup but we can manage. Remember It would be intended for the pros out there that are used to much more complexity.

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    Richard Spooner
    Well it's definitely a work around but all I can say is that I've mixed quite a lot of TV and Theatrical Shorts with the set up and it seems to make my room translate well.
     
    Readings.
    I do three readings. 1. Left and right monitors as normal. 2. Left Sur and Right Sur monitors as you would do a normal left and right. 3. Centre and the left or right speakers.
    I don't use the delay settings that are created , just the eq. 
     
    My I/O set-up.
    In Protools I created a 5.1 bus which is called B-Chain. This 5.1 bus has 3 stereo sub-paths,  L+R. C+Lfe, Ls+Rs. 
    I have a 5.1 output that has 3 stereo sub-paths, L+R, C+Lfe, Ls+Rs. Which feed the appropriate monitors.
     
    Session Routing.
    My Final Mix 5.1 bus is sent to the 5.1 B-Chain Bus. I create 3 stereo busses who's inputs are the 3 B-Chain stereo sub-paths. These 3 stereo busses are then sent to the 3 stereo output sub-paths that feed the speakers. These 3 stereo sub-paths have the appropriate sonar works plug-ins over them with the readings I took earlier.
     
    Essentially all i'm doing is splitting the 5.1 bus into 3 SMPTE stereo paths which I can then put the stereo plug-in over before sending them back out the 5.1 outputs. It should be easier but Protools won't let you send a 5.1 bus or track to anything but a 5.1 bus or output. I think if I had something like the Spanner plug-in I could do it easier.
     
    As I said I don't use the delay feature in Sonarworks. I do delay the surrounds via another plug-in though for other reasons.
     
    This way I have 5 speakers EQ'd for the room. The Lfe just uses the reading I got for the left speaker when I measured the centre and left speaker. Not perfect but ... 
     
    Make sense ?
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    Patrice Lazareff

    Yes please, we need more 5.1 cowbell !

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    James Ashton

    It's none of my business of course what someone would do with a surround setup with only 2 speakers calibrated, but I can't understand how that would be helpful in any way? For post, the most important speaker is unquestionably the center. I can see that if you're doing music that this may not be the case, but even so - with a half calibrated system what happens when you pan something somewhere other than hard left or right? You'll get all sorts of wonky stuff going on...

     

    For what it's worth, I've manually adjusted my 7.1 system using Fabfilter Pro Q, some pink noise and a measurement microphone (if you weren't aware, Fabfilter Pro Q has a side chain feature with EQ matching). I have no doubt it's not as accurate as in depth room correction, but at least my frequency response from low to high is relatively flat within my room

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    Sonarworks

    Hi,

    If you cannot implement full surround support near-term, could you at least implement pass-through?

    I.e., the stereo speakers are calibrated and the other speakers are just passed through in system-wide?

     

    That should be rather simple to implement and already gives a significant value.

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    François Beauvais (Edited )

    In the meantime, here is my workaround for a "systemwide" approche to 5.1.

    First off, I should say that my main goal was to apply the calibration only to my front left and right channels while being able to listen to 5.1 references from movies and music mixes. My studio is my main listening and working room and I did not want to only have the calibration work in my DAW. I wanted a systemwide that could playback 5.1 material. The main correction was to fix a small frequency buildup between 40hz and 100hz. What I am feeding my center and surround channels dont build up those frequencies that much. It's far from perfect but better than nothing. Using the calibration on only the front left/right in a 5.1 system is still in my case, an improvement.

    The problem is that as of now, Windows (dont know about mac users) does not let you configure the Sonarworks Virtual Audio Device in 5.1 so a Systemwide approche did not work.

    The workaround requires 2 things :

    A standalone plugin called Blue Cat's Patchwork along with an audio interface that can mix input/playback/output. In my case, Totalmix FX.

    So what I end up doing is use a digital loop (jumper) from AES or ADAT Out to AES or ADAT In. The reason for going digital is that if possible, you want to avoid going through the converters twice.

    Next step is to route your playback front left/right to that loop and use Patchwork to put an instance of reference 4 plugin between. In patchwork, you select ADAT 1/2 for inputs and the two channels of your choice for outputs, in my case, I used 7/8.

    I hope this can help someone.

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    Richard Spooner

    Chris, that's great news that you are looking into mutli-channel support. I would still love you produce a solution that we could use inside our DAW's but with Dolby Atmos and the Dolby audio bridge etc starting to enter my workflow things are moving on.

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    François Beauvais

    I'm already passing through with the patchwork work around I explained earlier. To me this is important because I dont have to constantly switch drivers (software). That way the stereo calibration is always on and there is no chance of accidently working or even listen to material without it. I dont want to use it in the daw to prevent accidental printing of the correction. I mainly mix music for films and video games so it's not that center focused. I do need 5.1 but I take what I can and if I can get a correction out of left and right, well at least that's that. To those like me mixing music in 5.1 or 7.1 setups, it would be useful until they finally release a fully surround version. That said, my work around explained earlier works perfectly.

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    François Beauvais

    I guess it depends on your room issues. You are right. It is definitely not the ideal solution but I'll take what I can. In my case, witch is mostly mixing musique for films and video games. The biggest issue in my room was around 100hz that build up in my corners. That came mostly from the stereo fronts and not from the center or rear speakers. Knowing my room is still part of the mixing process and I've grown accustomed to my left and right channels being corrected and it's definitely better than nothing.

    I use 2 active BM12 Dynaudio, a passive Focal for my center and a of 2.1 Energy for my rears and sub. I've also calibrated my kit with pink noise and did all I could to make coherent setup. A few years ago I didn't even have a correction on my left & right channel and since I stared using Sonarworks, my mixes have been a lot easier to get right. Even if it's not correcting all channels.

    That said, there is no doubt we could all use a multi-channel release but in the meantime, a pass through with a warning is not such a bad idea for those who wish to use it.

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    Patrice Lazareff

    That's sad news but at least, thank you for letting us know :-(

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    Kārlis Stenders (Edited )

    That's a good thought. It would probably be relatively easy to implement, but would require a fair bit of UI work. 

    Thanks for bringing this up, I'll see what I can do to find out exactly how much resources that would require and what the developers and designers think of this. 

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    Kārlis Stenders (Edited )

    Hi everyone!

    This has yet again been a hot topic around here and the conclusion unfortunately is no - it will either be a fully capable multi-channel calibration at some point, or nothing at all. 

    The decision has been made by the pro side product owner; we cannot have half-functional calibration software released - our accuracy standard cannot be compromised. 

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    Shaun Gallagher

    Still waiting on some form of implementation of this. My current workaround on Mac is similar to François', but I'm instead using MenuBus Pro v2 over Patchwork and the plugin version. It's less than ideal though due to the latency introduced, but does accomplish a calibrated front L/R with pass-through of all other channels.

    I'd love to see official support for at least just multichannel pass-through of all other channels except the stereo main pair. Seems fairly trivial to implement.

    Please Sonarworks!

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    mihai

    Please add multichannel support. I'm currently using DIRAC(600 EUR per license) and it's working like a dead horse... Unlike SonarWorks (stereo) it's not even working with my Motu interface.

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